December 19, 2013 at 3:26 am #45698
you hit the nail on the head paintstick!!! water is gonna work better for some in different areas. i’m in charlotte n.c. where humidity is a huge problem in summer months. i sprayed ppg’s nexa auto color for 6 months before changing jobs.now im on cromax pro….2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS!!!!! ppg was very friendly with color match but needed more coats for coverage… 2 and 1/2 coats is more logical with cromax but fan deck colors are not as good as camera shot formulas. blends have got easier with practice spraying the base like single stage like you said. in short: all systems have glitches.some take more time to learn.March 23, 2014 at 6:19 am #46179
Definitely PPG Envirobase one of the best ones I’ve used along side nexa autocolor which is basically the sameMay 8, 2014 at 7:29 am #46587
The shop I’m working in was spraying standox water and loved it, I came from a aquabase shop and as soon as the standox contract was up had them demo ppg and they switched. the speed of the base is the only up side to that stupid all wet 1.5 coat application. and when you factor in flash time, and having to use a wetbed for every color, it ends up balancing out. Not to mention its not user friendly at all. Have fun getting a nib out of a silver job and not having it look like garbage. If you are gonna spray water might as well spray a true water. sikkens, prospray, and ppg are the only lines im aware of with a true water basecoat. not to mention the aquabase sealer is awesome. super smooth edges, dont really have to burn it in or sand before topcoating, and it stays open 72 hours.May 9, 2014 at 12:55 am #46591
Neither…. Sikkens 😉May 9, 2014 at 4:16 am #46592
We actually have both systems at work. Autowave MM and Aquabase. However, we only ever use the Sikkens system for base. Everything gets PPG sealer and clear. We just use it as back up for color matching if we can’t find something we like in PPG.May 9, 2014 at 5:25 am #46593
Geez your missing out,sikkens has much nicer sealer and clear(superior 250 2pack,colorbuild sealer) than ppg. :stonedMay 12, 2014 at 2:04 am #46608
[quote=”Jayson M” post=35138]Geez your missing out,sikkens has much nicer sealer and clear(superior 250 2pack,colorbuild sealer) than ppg. :stoned[/quote]
In your opinion 😛May 12, 2014 at 2:31 am #46609
…… at least I have tried both 😉July 8, 2014 at 8:39 am #46947
it’s been a month since the last comment, but i just wanted to sound off on this.
bottom line. each and every paint system has its strong points. what works in one shop, one paint booth, one area of the world might not work in another. the ultimate goal is making sure your customer leaves with a smile on their face. your customer isn’t going to be concerned about the brand of paint on their vehicle if the alignment you did on their car plunges them in to oncoming traffic the day after you return their vehicle.
that being said, count my vote for envirobase. i don’t have much to add since everything i would say has already been said, however their clears leave much to be desired.
has anyone tried the EPW waterborne primer? thoughts? comments?
i sprayed chromax pro for a period a couple of years ago. here was my experience.
20 minute flash time for plastic adhesion promoter (according to jobber)
20 minute flash time for theiir sealer (according to jobbber)
my biggest gripe? tracking down a color. i found i was punching in a paint code, finding a ridiculous amount of alternates, taking a picture, hunting down more alternates, THEN sifting through a giant library of spray out cards. wasn’t a fan
i found the 1.5 coat idea….cool? but not at the expense of a 20 minute bake cycle. coupled with another bake cycle after clearing that adds up. if i owned a shop i wouldn’t want to risk a stroke every time the gas bill showed up.
euro paint, american paint,. house paint. doesn’t mean anything. i use envirobase, i’m productive with it, my jobs turn out nice, i don’t get come backs, and my customers are happy, in my book that makes me elite. i’m sure if i had ten years painting chromax, or sikkens, or standox i’d be saying the same thing.August 30, 2014 at 5:13 am #47292
Ok so I’m not concerned over the comparison cause think I’m stuck with the spies hi tech. I do like the system but I’m having a hell of a time blending silver I’ve been trying a three effect coat process that my rep suggested with the 4:1 mix just on the blend area over the wet bed. But I keep having to dry blend it and I think that makes it worse. I’ve done a few that have come out great and thought I was getting it till I did 1f7 today and it just looked all blotchy and couldn’t fix it really with the drop coat. I’m asking you cause you seem to like the system as well and have a lot more experience than I do with the system how do you like to do your blends? Any tips would be greatly appreciated thank you.September 19, 2014 at 5:26 am #47414
I am using Envirobase and cant find a clear I like from PPG that dont dieback tremendously..
Can you tell me what clears you guys are using over the Envirobase???September 19, 2014 at 7:25 am #47415
[quote=”jimizee028″ post=35916]I am using Envirobase and cant find a clear I like from PPG that dont dieback tremendously..
Can you tell me what clears you guys are using over the Envirobase???[/quote]
I read your other post about Envirobase, it seems like your experience with it is not positive like most.
I used it previously, and liked it a lot. For the clear, we used EC700 an EC750. Both are good products, and can have excellent finishes that hold out. They are a little more finicky than the non low VOC clears, but with experience they can work. It is best to use these with bake, rather than air dry. Price wise, they are on par with competitive brands.
You mentioned in your other post about transparent colours? Are you using the correct value shade for your primer/sealer? You also mentioned how some of the colours come through the strainer. Are you using the 125 micron filters? Also, make sure the colours are mixed very well before spraying, getting a rubber spatula or something that really gets the side of the container well helps.
Drying wise, it seemed fast to me. Only a few minutes between coats of base. A booth with good air flow, and/or blowers help. What is the humidity typically like in your area?September 19, 2014 at 4:10 pm #47419
I have 700,750 and 800.I have used them all in various situations..Just am not happy whatsoever with gloss retention..I lay them out and walk away they look great , next day the dieback begins….If I bake these clears it speeds up that entire process..
I am using the finest PPS cups..Blue ones…the little contaminates still get through….
and I allways seal with the appropriate value shade…
I have been painting for 30 years,I know a little bit,but changing over to this VOC Compliant paint has realyy taken the wind outta my sails….
Gives a whole new meaning to hearing about sitting around and watching paint dry….September 19, 2014 at 5:04 pm #47424
With the clears, are you applying as the a one visit application, or allowing them to flash between coats? How good is the airflow in your booth?September 20, 2014 at 3:42 am #47426
Just figured i would add some info on my results with envirobase. I double strain my base. I mix in a quart can and then strain it with 125 micron into the pps cups. Then i gets strained with the pps cup. Works well for getting rid of the chunks. As far as the clears i have been having similar issues with the 700. I do the 2-coat application with some medium reducer works well and bake it as soon as your done. I used to wait 10 – 15 minutes had lots of die back issues. Now i clear, get out hit the bake. My booth has a 3 minute purge cycle before it bakes. Ppg just released a new clear ec-530 suppose to replace the 700. Hoprefully going to get my hands on it next week. The jobbers i have talked to said its suppose to be as good as or better than sikkens superior 250. hope this helps.
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