May 23, 2013 at 6:47 pm #43227
I’m looking for advice from anyone who has used either PPG Envirobase or Dupont Chromax. Our shop now uses PPG’s dbc.We want to switch to water base and have these to options available.Thanks for any advice you can offer.May 23, 2013 at 7:03 pm #43228
Envirobase all the way, no question about it, I spray it every day and love it, color matches are great, coverage is good on 95% of the colors, blends out awesome, been using it over 3 years now. Dupont or Axalta or whatever its called now is a different animal, Dupont rep was by my shop and demoed it, wasent impressed at all, been hearing nothing but horror stories. Last time I checked they want you to buy an $8000 camera to read correct color formulas. Just my opinion.May 24, 2013 at 2:50 am #43233
Since u have ppg in there now, stick with it. U wont have to go thru the hassle of putting in new equipment. It is easy to use, once u get the hang of it. But try to keep the solvent on hand, just for the fact that if u come across a previous repaired car, u can still have the tinting option, and if your like us, our body shop guys cut n their own parts, they wouldnt play well with the water. & some manufactures like kia, dbc just matches better.May 24, 2013 at 4:48 am #43234
I’ve previously used both. Enviro is a clear winner. Better colour matches, easier to use and I think you will find it cheaper too.May 24, 2013 at 10:00 pm #43237
3 votes for PPG Envirobase. Is there anyone out there that likes Dupont Chromax or is it really that bad?May 25, 2013 at 7:11 am #43241
There’s painters that like but not many but I’ve used cromax for a little over a year and hate it. It cost a lot more and you use a lot more paint cause u have to put it on wet and you have to have the camera cause you can’t use the chip deck cause they don’t match what u spray and really too much crap and not enough reward for what you have to put up with to make it workNovember 25, 2013 at 12:20 pm #45508
Well, I use Spies Hecker 480 high tech water base. It is Chromax Pro and Standox Standoblue in a different label. PPG water borne is an easier transition for less experienced painters. It applies more like solvent. Multiple coats flash between each coat. It is very slow compared to the Axalta group. I love my system. The color matches are outstanding once you find the correct variant to the car. That is the problem. Finding the color is a treasure hunt. Now that I have worked with it for a few years I pick them pretty accurately. The learning curve is long. PPG has a much easier system to learn. It is just dead slow to apply is all. With equal knowledge and time with both products you would use Chromax Pro. My color match time is spent while products dry. No lost production. I have learned to read the variants. I do not do spray outs. It’s a waist of time and materials. I can apply my base on a 3 panel spot job in 30 seconds. PPG would take up to a half hour. More on some colors. Speed is in the Axalta corner. PPG has the easy learning corner. I think you should go with PPG. You already know the rest of the system. More painters use PPG than any other brand. Only the top income guys use the European brands.November 26, 2013 at 5:31 am #45514
I am always suprised to here all the negetivty on the Dupont or Axalta line of waterborne. To me it is the fastest and freindlyest waterborne out there. The diference is in the learning curve and some people get frustraded early and just dont give it a honest chance. I have herd it is more expensive but productivity is also worth something. At least try some Cromax so you know what it is like. It is totally diferent than the multicoat systems. Good luckNovember 28, 2013 at 5:01 am #45539
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I aggree, axalta’s colors are there but finding them can be a challange at times… As far as speed, axalta’s water blows away the competiton… No doubt, it is a different animal, it sprays more like a single stage water that drys to a dull finish like base coat.. Definitly less fatige on the painter with it’s 1 1/2 coat coverage… That means you go around the car 1 time on a complete instead of 4 or 5… Honestly, took me 2 months to get totally comfortable when we switched….November 29, 2013 at 7:53 am #45555
4-5 Times ? What are you comparing to… Chromabase?
Around here the tech reps can’t even make it perform like their sales pitch. Gonna have a hard time convincing me to use a product that takes 2 months to get used to and finding the right variant takes a degree from Scotland Yard .
Once the color is hogged on in your coat and half, how long does it take to flash before you can clear.November 29, 2013 at 8:15 am #45556
I’m comparing it to ppg as stated in the topic.. I switched over seven years ago, and at that time I’m not ashamed to say I didn’t know jack about water… So yes, it took a bit to master it were I felt as comfertable as solvent..
Dont know how they demo it out there, but here the car will pretty much be dry and ready for clear by the time I clean my gun and get the clear mixed up…November 29, 2013 at 4:59 pm #45563
So, I am assuming you have tried every waterborne system in those 7 years while using the cromax?
This water stuff…I don’t have a bone in the fight as I don’t use it and probably won’t ever use it unless it is mandated here. When companies start investing R&D into low voc solvent, makes me think the water isn’t necessarily the future for all of us.
Speed of basecoat isn’t the only thing that makes a system efficient.November 29, 2013 at 7:15 pm #45564
Nope, i worked in the same shop for 25 years, the last five were using Cromax Pro.. I left 2 1/2 years ago because they sold out to a certain MSO, since then I have worked for a Dupont “Axalta” Champion jobber as a tech, only there I can say that we have done product comparisons… Truth is they all work, they all have good & bad points, if there was a perfect system everyone would have it.. jmo
It really comes down to support imo, yes the paint companies are working on 3.5 solvent because there are tons of shops that are scared & just dont have the enviroment for water… But to my understanding, most change to water because of color match because that is whats being used at the oem level…
And lets face it, some if these new cars look totally horrible… imoNovember 30, 2013 at 4:29 am #45570
I get a kick out of the 1.5 coats vs 2.5 coats and the struggle for a color match but it is the fastest product out there :blink: It does not make sense how you can bag on a coat and a half and clean out your gun and clear it,I doubt the tds really says that.There is a shop in my area that has 2 years worth of cromax redos and its not the painter or the shop.The reps told them how fast it was and how you can push it but in the end they did not stand behind the product and the shop is on the hook.
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