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ici/nexa solvent base problems and questions

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Carl 2 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #47979

    matthew mcintyre
    Participant

    hey right first off i have just taken on one of the ici/nexa solvent schemes, as i was sick of my perivious paint supplyer not paying enough atention when they where mixxing my paint up.
    i wanted octoral water which i have used at my last place but i dont have a booth here and i just cant dry the stuff 🙁

    anyways ive been having some problems blending out light metallic’s, mottling and some very questionable colour matches.

    have you guys any tips or expiriance with it?
    ive tryed slower thinners, over thinning for the blending (tacking between coats). im just really struggling with it.

    any advice would be great

    thanks in advance

    #47983

    Carl
    Participant

    I have not used that paint mate but its the same as our mipa system (solvent) the silvers are allways too dark and mottle or halo ! I would struggle with the blends untill i started laying a clear basecoat on my blend area first ! I actually lay clear basecoat / binder on before all my 3 colour coats in blend area only and when the silver lands on this it doesnt mottle or edge at all ! I was totally p1ssed at doing silver blends untill i used the clear blend trick and works really well,hth

    #47986

    matthew mcintyre
    Participant

    cheers mate, ive just had a word with my rep about which binder to use, so im gonna give it a go when i get a silver in next.

    he was also saying some one else using the scheme has been getting good results with fade out thinner, putting one coat over the whole pannel before base, and then once the repair is covered in colour reduce base with fade-out by 25% flick out a bit further and then reduce again by another 25% and same again.

    ill have to give both ways ago and see what happens

    cheeers:)

    #47987

    Carl
    Participant

    No probs
    I was told the other way with fade out but seems a but long winded imo,as long as you have an old 1.3 gun to shoot the clear base/binder then straight on with the silver so the blend area is where you have put the clear base youll have no troubles mate ! I even leave the clear base in my old devilbiss gti now for quickness, i just take nozzle off so its clean when needed bud, after the first silver job you do itll come as second nature bud,i have only had 1 that wasnt brilliant but that was the colour being miles out after someone else mixed me standard shade but it was a traders car and he loved the job lol

    #47993

    Chris
    Participant

    Now that’s interesting. I came on here tonight with the idea of starting a thread on this topic and here one is already.

    For the last 12 years I’ve used Dupont solvent (6000, 610 and L400) and in all that time I’ve only ever had maybe two or three times where there’s been a problem with the blend. Every time it’s been the dark halo around the edge of silver metallics but you can see it in the base and it’s not that hard to fix.

    Today, though I had a dark blue/violet grey metallic and had mottling like I’ve never had before. It looked like the marks you get from not wiping Prepsol off properly, or letting it dry enough. Thing is that while I did Prepsol all three panels (was doing front door and blend to rear door and guard), I Prepsoled before I started masking and then ran over the whole three panels with P1500 wet because I wasn’t quite happy with the prep that had been done. Cleaned that all down with water and then started masking. So, anything that was on there had plenty of time to dry. Blew and tacked before base and base went on pretty good. Flashed, tacked and blew again and as soon as I started clear I could see mottling. first coat of clear was near perfect so baked that, scuffed, tacked again and dusted some more base over the problem area which was really outside the blend so looked just like overspray.

    Tacked very carefully this time (not that I didn’t before) and went with clear again. Not much but it was doing it again just past the edge of my blend.

    Now since I’d basically used the first coat of clear as a sealer and not touched the panel with Prepsol after that, the second time could not possibly have been Prepsol. Used same guns I normally do for a job like this – AZ3 in 1.3 for base and Tekna Copper in 1.3 for clear. Both at 31psi

    So, what caused it? Not sure but the one major change was that I used a different brand of base coat (Dulux, this time). Never had a problem with other brands like PPG Deltron, Spies Hecker or Standox, all of which I use occasionally when I can’t get a good enough match in DuPont/Cromax.

    Started me thinking and I wondered if maybe the Dulux base just happens to be one that needs a wet bed to get a smooth clean blend.

    Anyone else find that some brands are more susceptible than others?

    #47995

    Carl
    Participant

    Im not sure the exact reason why it happens but it sounds like what we at work call spidering ? Its like dust from basecoat that stays on the panel where you haven’t put any paint, it doesnt come off either with tac rag and is mainly the grey colours like ford sea grey and audi dolphin grey etc etc etc
    I put it down to the pearls they have in those colours but i really don’t know why it happens !
    As for silvers they all seem to halo or mottle on me unless i clear blend

    #47996

    matthew mcintyre
    Participant

    well thats something i can help with, its happened to me a few times and always with greys.
    this is the only thing that works for me, give you pannel the usual pannel wipe and tack then before you base up lay down a coat of faid-out thinners over all the pannels to be painted and let it flash off. then paint as usual.

    not quite sure how or why it works, maybe statik , all i know is since i started doing it i have never had a problem since.

    just remember not to tack between coats as it seems to affect it, i usually tack before base and then before clear or if i have to tack the pannel off then just put a bit more faid out thinner on before continuing.

    hope this helps

    #47997

    Carl
    Participant

    I thought it might be static of some sort and the dust sticking in the scuff marks ! I was also told to try to scotch the panel as normal and then use a 2000 abralon or trizact with an interface pad on a da slightly damp over the panel to smooth out any troughs the scotch has left,then the dust doesn’t stick in them but i have not tried this yet,it also helps with silver blends !

    #47999

    Chris
    Participant

    [quote=”Scoobycarl” post=36460]Im not sure the exact reason why it happens but it sounds like what we at work call spidering ? Its like dust from basecoat that stays on the panel where you haven’t put any paint, it doesnt come off either with tac rag and is mainly the grey colours like ford sea grey and audi dolphin grey etc etc etc
    I put it down to the pearls they have in those colours but i really don’t know why it happens ! [/quote]

    Yep! That’s it, exactly.

    Like you get with static on a plastic bar, but doesn’t come off with a tack rag.

    [quote=”no1tosh” post=36461]well thats something i can help with, its happened to me a few times and always with greys.
    this is the only thing that works for me, give you pannel the usual pannel wipe and tack then before you base up lay down a coat of faid-out thinners over all the pannels to be painted and let it flash off. then paint as usual.

    not quite sure how or why it works, maybe statik , all i know is since i started doing it i have never had a problem since.

    just remember not to tack between coats as it seems to affect it, i usually tack before base and then before clear or if i have to tack the pannel off then just put a bit more faid out thinner on before continuing.

    hope this helps[/quote]

    Static? Maybe, but never had that on a metal panel before. Thanks anyway. I’ll give it a go.

    I don’t usually have a problem with this. Just an odd one that happened yesterday. I’m starting to think that it may have something to do with the formulation of the base. Firstly that it is “sticky” which would maybe explain why it didn’t come off with the tack rag and secondly maybe it is just more susceptible to static? Yesterday was dry and I ran the base at 31psi which is maybe a touch higher than normal but I was trying to get a little finer atomisation to help with the blend. Don’t quite understand since I always wipe down with water last thing before tacking – that usually gets rid of the static.

    #48000

    Carl
    Participant

    I try to lower the spray gun pressure with these colours but it still pops its head up somewhere lol

    #48001

    Chris
    Participant

    Weird, huh? I’ve been in this business a long time but never stop learning.

    Why does it only happen with greys? Got me beat. Nothing unusual in the colour I was doing (Mitsubishi A72) – Jet Black, Flop Control, HS Blue, Violet, Coarse Bright Aluminium and a bit of Extra Coarse Aluminium.

    Anyway, final result was ok and will go out today. Customer will be happy and, at the end of the day, that’s really all that matters. 😉

    #48002

    Carl
    Participant

    Thats the main goal customer satisfaction but sometimes getting to that point is more of a struggle ! with our paint system its these little tricks we pick up that gets to there a little easier or quicker !
    Glad it worked out for you in the end bud.
    Carl.

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