sherwin williams fast air dry clear

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of paul paul 2 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #47201
    Profile photo of ron
    ron
    Participant

    hi,
    Anyone used the Sherwin Williams HPC15 clear? im going to try it on a merc im doing for a mate. I have no oven so the fast dust freee in 5 mins and air dry in 15 to 40 mins is a real plus for me.
    if you have used it can you give me your thoughts and how you apply and with what set up.
    I have the data sheet and its 2 full on wet on wet coats with no flash between coats. De Beer have 2 air dry and i have tried the slower of the 2 with good results, dust free in 20 mins but takes 12 to 16 hours to cure up for denib.

    the sherwin above can be polished after 15 to 20 mins at 70 degree!
    cheers

    #47202
    Profile photo of nick
    nick
    Participant

    Its okay dont go expecting to much from a fast air drying clear, it doesnt have anywhere near the depth and build of a high solid for obvious reasons

    But it does what it says on the tin

    #47203
    Profile photo of ron
    ron
    Participant

    i witnessed a demo of the debeer fast air dry and the finish after 2 full wet on wet no flash was amazing, dry in 20 mins at room temp. the depth of gloss was as good as i have seen. cant get it here yet ( northern ireland) but can get the SW air dry.
    have you used any of these?

    #47206
    Profile photo of Ben Hart
    Ben Hart
    Participant

    I spray Sherwin Williams everyday. It’s been a long time since I sprayed the HPC15…it’s just too damn fast. Instead, try the HPC21, it’s just a hair slower, which makes it easier to apply, but dries pretty much as fast. In warm temps it is out of dust in,about 5 minutes, and polishable in as little as 20 minutes.

    I usually spray with the es55 reducer (rather than the 10, 15 or 20) as it allows a few
    Moments for the clear to flow out and any overspray to melt in. I can spray up to 2-3 panel jobs if the temp isn’t too warm.

    As far as depth goes, I call bullshit to anyone who says it can’t look as good as the slower clears. It is piss thin, so you need to be generous with application, and when you want a real nice finish apply 3 full wet coats with 1-3 minutes flash between with the es55 or es20 reducers. That will slightly increase dry time, but still air dry in about 15-20 minutes, polish able in about 45 minutes to an hr.

    Timing is key with this clear, don’t let it flash too long, and if you hammer it on, do allow a minute or 3 to let the solvents flash off. Seeing jobs after nearly 2 years, it does seem to hold up well too.

    #47210
    Profile photo of ron
    ron
    Participant

    [quote=”Ben” post=35717]I spray Sherwin Williams everyday. It’s been a long time since I sprayed the HPC15…it’s just too damn fast. Instead, try the HPC21, it’s just a hair slower, which makes it easier to apply, but dries pretty much as fast. In warm temps it is out of dust in,about 5 minutes, and polishable in as little as 20 minutes.

    I usually spray with the es55 reducer (rather than the 10, 15 or 20) as it allows a few
    Moments for the clear to flow out and any overspray to melt in. I can spray up to 2-3 panel jobs if the temp isn’t too warm.

    As far as depth goes, I call bullshit to anyone who says it can’t look as good as the slower clears. It is piss thin, so you need to be generous with application, and when you want a real nice finish apply 3 full wet coats with 1-3 minutes flash between with the es55 or es20 reducers. That will slightly increase dry time, but still air dry in about 15-20 minutes, polish able in about 45 minutes to an hr.

    Timing is key with this clear, don’t let it flash too long, and if you hammer it on, do allow a minute or 3 to let the solvents flash off. Seeing jobs after nearly 2 years, it does seem to hold up well too.[/quote]

    Thanks a million Ben,
    just was i was looking for a technitian that knows what he is talking about. cant get the 21 here but 15. the tech guy at the supplier said i can do the side of the car ok if i go with the full on WOw panel by panel. he demo’d it last week ( i was not there tho) and said he had great results.
    Could you tell me you gun and set up please. been told ( and its on the SW data sheet) to have the fluid wide open as well as the fan. Is that what you do/ Im confident enough to shoot a wet on wet so cant see an issue. it will help me a great deal as i have no heat in my spray shop ( im a hobbiest not a pro although im a time served paint sprayer but have been out of it prfessionally for quite a few years ) thanks again and any tips please let me know
    im doing a E class merc down both sides at week end and am going to give the HPC15 a go.
    Thanks again
    Ron

    #47211
    Profile photo of Ben Hart
    Ben Hart
    Participant

    The 15 will work well, you’ll just need to work fast!

    The clear is very thing, I spray with a 4000 RP, wide open, 1.4 tip, 28-30 psi. You need to get the material on there. It is very easy to under apply and not achieve mil build/have a dry finish if you spray real light. Once you get the feel for it, it’s really easy to use. I would definitely test it out first before you spray that big of a job with it.

    Good luck!

    #47212
    Profile photo of nick
    nick
    Participant

    [quote=”Ben” post=35717] when you want a real nice finish apply 3 full wet coats with 1-3 minutes flash between with the es55 or es20 reducers. That will slightly increase dry time, but still air dry in about 15-20 minutes, polish able in about 45 minutes to an hr.

    .[/quote]

    I am not doubting it is a usable clear, obviously if you use the clear daily you will pick up on it’s usability, little tips and tricks etc.

    Though i think three coats is archaic technology, i would rather walk in to the booth and apply 1.5 coats back to back and walk back out, than apply three coats of clear, there is an obvious material saving plus time saving.

    Sherwin ultra fast clears have there place in the industry, they suit some more than others, for instance they suited me when i considered installing their system a few years ago, as my old booth had poor baking temp’s.

    After the demo i decided against it, the fast system would only have suited a small percentage of the type of work we do, having said thet we were only demo’d the ultra fast side of Sherwin products, perhaps they should have shown slightly slower products as well HPC 21 might have suited us better

    #47213
    Profile photo of Ben Hart
    Ben Hart
    Participant

    [quote=”nick@dunsdale” post=35723][quote=”Ben” post=35717] when you want a real nice finish apply 3 full wet coats with 1-3 minutes flash between with the es55 or es20 reducers. That will slightly increase dry time, but still air dry in about 15-20 minutes, polish able in about 45 minutes to an hr.

    .[/quote]

    I am not doubting it is a usable clear, obviously if you use the clear daily you will pick up on it’s usability, little tips and tricks etc.

    Though i think three coats is archaic technology, i would rather walk in to the booth and apply 1.5 coats back to back and walk back out, than apply three coats of clear, there is an obvious material saving plus time saving.

    Sherwin ultra fast clears have there place in the industry, they suit some more than others, for instance they suited me when i considered installing their system a few years ago, as my old booth had poor baking temp’s.

    After the demo i decided against it, the fast system would only have suited a small percentage of the type of work we do, having said thet we were only demo’d the ultra fast side of Sherwin products, perhaps they should have shown slightly slower products as well HPC 21 might have suited us better[/quote]

    Sorry Nick, I didn’t mean to jump all over your post like that.

    Sherwin Williams (here at least) has a bad reputation. Unfortunately, most people overlook some of their best features/products. It’s easy to get defensive when I know that overall their system is quite good.

    All the SW clears are on the thin (And lower solids content) side of things, so they do spray like older clear coats. There is one clear (the 757) that is their most high solids clear. It is as close as you can get to euro style clears like Sikkens and Glasurit…but still not as much solids content. Most of their clears they will allow you to apply in a 1visit back to back fashion, I find that does not produce the best results for me, and (with the lower solid content) can be difficult to achieve desired mil build.

    Here SW has about 8 or so low voc clears of various speeds. I stick with the HPC21, 755 (slow/overall clear) and the Matt clear. For medium speeds I can mix the 21 and 755 (in a specific ratio) to make a great production clear that can air dry or bake in 10 minutes.

    #47227
    Profile photo of ron
    ron
    Participant

    Well i was a little nervous about using this and getting the result i wanted, but after talking to the tech guy at the supplier he has sold thousands of gallons of this without issue so i took his advice and went for it.
    i opened the gun right up, the clear is piss thin but oh how it goes on! using HVLp and set at 1.4 bar at inlet about 0.7 at cap, it sprayed on real nice, i done each panel in one go with 2 heavy WOW coats and was down the side of a Merc E class in minutes. Both sides done and complete in less that 20 mins the mix is 2:1:1 and i used only a 1200ml of clear.
    The finish is smooth and run and dirt free ( how i dont know as i dropped a very wet double coat on her). i didnt see the need for the third coat as its very glossy. Was dust free in 5 mins and touch dry in 30 mins. Now as i stated before im now painting as a hobby and without an oven this is perfect for my needs very little dirt and full gloss which looked as good this morning after an overnight sit in the shed. Im very happy with this and the speed of process is impressive. i also tried the HPC10 primer that is applied 3 coats with a few mins flash and was sanding it 20 mins later with no heat applied. Dries glossy and shows up the repair really well so sanding is simple when its all matt its flat and no more sinking. Good stuff all round.
    Ron

    #47228
    Profile photo of Ben Hart
    Ben Hart
    Participant

    I’m glad to hear you got the results you were looking for!

    And in the event you ever need to polish it, it does polish up really easy.

    #47229
    Profile photo of ron
    ron
    Participant

    yep doing that this afternoon, couple of dirt nibs to flat down then i use the 3 3M compounds and polishes from green to yellow through to blue. Easy to use and really good results with these.
    thanks for all your help Ben.

    #47465
    Profile photo of Jesse Wilkie
    Jesse Wilkie
    Participant

    +++on the hpc15. Been using it for years. Use your reducers to slow it down on larger jobs and if it needs buffed make sure to get on it within hours. If it sets up overnight you’ll be buffing for days. Stuff gets hard as a rock.

    #47520
    Profile photo of O MC Kenna
    O MC Kenna
    Participant

    Glad to see it worked out good as without any doubt this is the benchmark for air dry clears. It out performs any other brand in this segment. I’ve seen the de beer fast clear and it does not dry near as fast as hpc15 , it might dry to touch but I sure wouldn’t polish or let the car outside within the hour.
    Now ive seen poor jobs with hpc15 , poor gloss and die back but IT WAS DUE TO POOR APPLICATION.
    Spray at MAX 1.5 or 1.6 bar , 2 FULL wet coats with maximum 2 minutes flash , if you go wet on wet without any flash you’ll save 10 -15% product as you won’t put it on just as wet.
    Please adhere to the pressure I stated as this lower pressure will allow you to get a wetter coat on and do bigger areas.
    Try a little less thinner than the 25% maybe 15% or a little more. That allows you to get a little more texture as to match the car. Realistic drying time is 40-50 minutes in western Europe climate. Use 137 thinner for booth, air dry or bake cycle and 140 thinner is a little faster to harden just air drying.
    Roberlo and krystal have tried to move in on hpc15 territory but can’t come up with a product that dries as well, looks as good or can do as big of an area as hpc15.
    People need to be more open to different products and be open to the training available as so they can use this and any other leftfield products that work brilliantly when used properly, they can and do save time and money.

    #47555
    Profile photo of paul
    paul
    Participant

    Not used the fast clears yet but have been using the fast primers for a few months now ,no issues to report ,does the job very well and saves on time and materials ,overall very impressed with the primer version

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