August 30, 2016 at 7:35 am #49331
Trying to get a feeler for success rates with the camera from other Sikkens auwowave users. I’ve been using the camera for a year, maybe more. Been with Sikkens autowave for maybe 4-5 years. I used to work under a painter at one shop, but now I am head painter at another shop. At my previous shop, the camera worked better than the one I am using now (same camera model, same paint line). I would say I could get panel matches ~65-75% of the time at my old shop. It was so consistent that if we got a could color delta, we would hardly check the spray out until after the car was out of the booth, or you could say we did the spray outs just to have and rarely checked them. I went to the Sikkens school on separate occasions, one for the camera training and that further elevated my understanding of the camera and how to use it, whereas before i was getting second hand training from my boss who took the classes before me.
However, now that I have a camera of my own, while solids are pretty reliable, I’ve been getting really poor results with metallics and pearls. Out of the 30+ cars I’ve painted so far in this new shop, I’ve used the camera on nearly every car and each time I end up mixing up the standard and going from there because what the camera gave me is not usable or even blendable, despite a good color delta. There were of course a few times this happened at my previous shop with that camera on say a Subaru 61k or a metallic/pearl red. But for the most part, if the color delta was about 1.3 and under, it was good. But now I’m getting 0.8 deltas and its not close. Also sprayout corrections havent; worked for me either. Unfortunately my sprayout library isn’t as big as I would like it to be and I wasn’t given the “ColorScala” chips, only the camera. So if it’s a color I don’t have sprayouts for, I spend more time than I want to mixing up small amounts of each variant. Management is expecting 15 cars a day from 1 downdraft and 2 semi downdraft booths when we start getting more work. I don’t see that happening with this current camera and spending 45+ minutes on each color.
How have your experiences been? Do you guys do a lot of tinting?September 4, 2016 at 3:14 am #49334
Something definitely sounds off. First have you contacted an Akzo rep to look into the problem?
A couple things that greatly effect success, the prep of the panel before reading is very important. The spectra will give a color for anything you tell it to, hence poor prep gives poor color results.
Second is the mixing bank you are using a new one or has it been in the shop for a number of years? Reason I ask is that I have seen mixing banks where the toners were old or poorly cared for, that will affect color match.September 5, 2016 at 2:50 am #49335
Although you calibrate the camera there is also an internal calibration that should be performed from time to time. Have your rep take a look at it.September 5, 2016 at 10:51 pm #49336
As Ryan has stated the panel prep does make a huge difference and greatly increases accuracy.If you search sikkens automatchic on you tube the 8 step polish process is there.Maybe your camera needs to be sent away to be repaired? is your scale calibrated?Are you doing closed searches looking for the codes or are you just letting the camera pick a formula and relying on it.
I have had really good luck using the camera after I learned how to properly do it.I would say 9 out of 10 times it gives me an excellent match and very rarely do I have to take another shot for adjustment.I would seriously talk to your rep and have your camera checked out,something sounds off.September 8, 2016 at 8:02 pm #49338
Thanks for the replies. I texted my rep this morning and suggested a hard reset, something an auxiliary rep told me to try weeks ago, he agreed.
As for panel prep, I can’t look at youtube at the moment, but I suspect it’s the same as I’ve been doing. I follow the guidelines from the Akzo Traning center in Orange, CA taught by Mike Paplia: clean panel with glass cleaner, sand with 3000, sand with 5000. Compound, wipe, re-clean. Polish, wipe re-clean. Ultrafine polish, wipe, re-clean. Oddly enough, at the training they did not mention cleaning between compounds/polishes, but I think it’s important, so as not to work backwards with a small amount of leftover polish from the step before. And as I stated before, the painter at the previous shop was getting good matches and I was the one taking all the readings. I caught him using the wrong pads when prepping the panel doing a reading himself and apparently it didn’t affect it negatively enough for however many readings he took that way.
The mixing bank is brand new, the entire shop is brand new, actually. I’m pretty sure my rep calibrated it before I got there, he set up the bank ahead of time. I do open vehicle make searches and closed color code searches where necessary.
Yesterday, on a Chrysler PAU, it gave me a 0.6 search candidate, one which I already had mixed, it wasn’t even blendable. I instead chose an optimized bluer variant at a 0.7, it was barely blendable. I went into panels I wasn’t getting paid to blend into to make it work.September 9, 2016 at 7:23 am #49339
Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on how things work. When you say the colors are not bendable, what is wrong with them? Is it a color issue or an effect issue?
Also I would stay away from open searches if unless a search with the manufactuer and effect size do not give you a good color.
The reset will not hurt anything, give it a go. Also try cleaning the calibration tiles with an alcohol swab followed by a fresh microfiber towel.
If you don’t mind me asking where are you located?September 10, 2016 at 7:04 am #49340
Some of the time they are blendable, but they are really tough. Most of the time the issue is color, whether it be face or sidecast/flop. Occasionally it will be both, but if just the effect is off its usually a silver like a k23, which could be a 1 effect, maybe 2, but it only gives me 2 and 3 as options and it comes out too fine. At the time I’m thinking that maybe the 2 it’s picking is more toward a 1, but I don’t know if it works that way. Too light, too blue, not green enough, too red/not enough, etc is usually how it goes.
I must have misunderstood the term “open search” because I never search without manufacturer and effect. I just don’t always search within the actual color code unless my results come up with too many different codes for that manufacturer.
Even though I’m pretty familiar with the paint system, i’m not a great tinter. Plus I think it takes too much time, and I don’t think I should have to that often.
Oh and the camera class was actually taught by a Ryan Brown (?) from Kentucky, and a guy from the UK. Mike taught everything else. Looking forward to the next one, I think it’s all on three stages.
Good call on the tile cleaning, I’ll have to try that. The hard reset did nothing. Speaking of cleaning, I was told certain cleaners can leave a red hue on the panel that the camera picks up, but I can’t remember which. I was using ultraprep surface cleaner, but then changed to glass cleaner in between and for final clean for what it’s worth . I supposed 50% alcohol and water would be ideal, works great for buffing. I am in San Diego btw.September 11, 2016 at 2:17 am #49341
Something that I have noticed with the camera is when the optimized formula adjusts the delta alot I wont use it. (going from a 1.8 to a .8) When I run into something like that then I call the help desk and ask them for the most popular varient based on the vin. I have only had one case when that did not work for me.September 11, 2016 at 2:46 am #49342
I would get a color wheel chart. It explains what each toner does. Makes it a lot easier to adjust colors.September 12, 2016 at 7:31 pm #49343
Is the helpdesk the same as the tech line (1-800-618-1010)?September 13, 2016 at 10:53 am #49344
Something that I have noticed with the camera is when the optimized formula adjusts the delta alot I wont use it. (going from a 1.8 to a .8) When I run into something like that then I call the help desk and ask them for the most popular varient based on the vin. I have only had one case when that did not work for me.[/quote]
I feel the same way. I try and stay away from optimized forumlas if it adjusts the delta by a large margin.
I also don’t like spraying anything with a 0.8 or higher delta, it has always been poor matches for me.
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