Just wanted to post a quick update on the apprenticeship. I tried to challenge the first test and don't know how I made out, here is a more detailed post on the test:

http://www.autobodyrepairwork.com/2010/05/22/auto-body-repair-school-test-1/

where is it???

i dont know what went wrong, links up now.

I looked at the questions on the link and tried to answer them but i never studied this in school

I just got my results, didn't pass

I ended up with a 66% and needed 70%....Guess I'll be rewriting in November, gives me more RN time anyway.

Did you have a lot of questions where "all the answers were right and you had to pick the best one" I remember my inter-provincial exam having the dumbest questions. The one that pissed me off the most i'll never forget.
What is the best tool to fill a pinhole in your bodywork
a razorblade
a steel putty knife
a plastic putty knife
a plastic razor blade

REALLY???!!

I ended up not getting 1 percent below pass mark on the red seal .
so long story short, i'm only a registered journeyman in Alberta. I got like 80% or something on the provincial exam.

If i ever find the motherf*cker that wrote that

While you are on the topic of apprenticeships, would you guys give this a read and comment on it. I would like to hear your thoughts. Article is on page 33, entitled It's your turn: The trouble with apprentices.

www.canadiantechnician.com/mag.cfm?year=2010&date=2010-03-31&page_view=1

Brad Larsen

Mr. Kowal sounds like a bit of a baby to me

How else are apprentices suppose to learn? The whole point of an apprenticeship is hands on experience. He's talking like he never forgot to put a bolt in a bumper in his whole life. If the journeyman did every job from start to finish the apprentices wouldn't learn anything. It's a responsibility as a journeyman to watch over your apprentice as he's learning. I'm not saying micro manage the poor bastard but when he's done a job, check to make sure he doesn't have any parts left and its put together properly, takes one minute. The apprentice is responsible for getting the job put together and the journeyman is responsible for the apprentice. If this guy had his way not only would we run out of journeyman one day, we'd run out of apprentices too!

It's not rocket appliances!

I don't blame the poor fella, looks pretty busy enjoyin that coffee while his 14$ apprentice is off puttin bumpers and door handles together

dturcotte, I agree. This guy sounds like he had apprentices thrust upon him, but never had a sitdown with the boss to lay down the ground rules. Those of you that know me, know that I am a huge fan of Steven Covey and his book 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. One of the habits is making everything you do win-win. It has to be good for both of you. Or in this case all three of you. The owner, the technician and the apprentice.

Owners have to give technicians the right to participate or not. Some technicians make lousy mentors and lack the ability to teach. Doesn't mean they can't. But owners need to work with them.

Technicians need to be able to choose who they work with. It is their job to supply, train and motivate the apprentice. They had better be able to get along.

Technicians need to help owners set the wage of the apprentice. If the technician is giving up his time to train and supervise, and use of some of his tools, he needs to be compensated for it. Apprentices need to be monitored and documented on their performance. How many hours are they actually performing in a day? In the case of Mr. Kowal it sounds as though all technicians labor is put into a pool, the hourly guys are paid first and the technician gets what is left over. This being the case, there had better be more left over than the technician could produce on his own or why is he doing it? Apprentices need to understand that when they are in the learning curve that they are not going to make much. Their wages need to be set so that the technician is compensted for training them. As they learn, they will naturally produce more and should be eligible for a raise, set by the technician. In return technicians do have a responsibility to supply, train and motivate apprentices. This arrangement is literally a business within a business. It allows the technician to rack up more hours without working longer and allows the owners to rack up additional hours as well.Owners need to understand that it is their responsibility to obtain more work to feed these apprentices. If they are out of work, the technician will send them home or the owner can pay them to sweep the floor.

Once the apprentice is thru with his time required to get licensed (in Canada) and has enough skill & tools to do most jobs start to finish. He may wish to break off on his own. Or he may not. I have a friend in Phoenix Arizona who has four apprentices under him, two of which have hardly bought a tool in two years. They would rather pay him $2-4 per hour of the money they flag, and forego having to layout $10,000 plus for hand and power tools and a box. Of course he has a lot of tools himself, to run four guys. He pays them both about $15 per hour and both require little or no supervision. He makes about $150-$300 per week off of each of them. That is $300-$600 more per week than he would make if he was solo. He told me he makes over $20,000 per year off of these four guys and part of that buys more tools.

Lets not forget that we were all apprentices at one time. Some of us were able to side step the requirements now in place for new techs, but someone still put up with our mistakes and covered for us. Lets give these new guys the same breaks. Treat them with the same patience and love that you give your kids. Make it worth the time and effort for the both of you.

Gentlemen as always: Opinions Please!

Brad Larsen

This is a great topic,I'm interested in other opinions also.I understand what Mr.kowal is saying,how is an apprentice going to learn anything by only doing a small part of the repair?The apprentice is not learning how to do collision repairs just the tedious part.

When I apprenticed in the mid 80's I started at a 4 man shop,the owner(wasn't on the floor very often)a painter,a bodyman,and me the apprentice.Within a year I was able to change panels,had a basic under standing of collision,helped in the paint shop,and painted when the main painter wasn't there(completes spot ins etc).

This is how an apprenticeship should be,the journeyman mentoring the younger guys so they can be successful in the future.In today's repair shops there is too much importance placed in numbers and production that a proper high quality repair is sometimes forgotten.I don't mind teaching apprentices and I have produced a few "good" journeyman in my career.But I don't think the "team" system is a good idea for anybody.

Jayson M wrote:


Hey Jason, could you share your thoughts on why you think a team system is no good?
I have mixed feeling about it, but at the moment I am teamed up with another painter it its working really well for us.

I would like to know what you guys think about aprrenticeships and technician licensing in general. Opinions please!

Brad Larsen